Discussion about the 5 Kingdoms

 
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KnightFall
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Re: The Wide World

Sat Dec 11, 2010 1:19 pm

About when does the Cataclysm in the Dragon Kingdoms occur? Calynys has a significant population from the Dragon Kingdoms and I'm trying to figure out when they would have arrived and if it was a result of the Cataclysm. I guess I also need to know how old the Dragon Kingdoms are in general.
It suddenly occurred to me just how absurd this scene was: a guy wearing a suit of armor, standing next to an undead king, both hunched over the controls of a classic arcade game.
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Re: The Wide World

Sat Dec 11, 2010 8:59 pm

The Wiki doesn't say.

I assume about 50TC for the cataclysm. The Dragon Kingdoms are pretty old, locally speaking - about a thousand years or so. There constituent Kingdoms (Mangalore, Sho, etc), probably existed long before that, in some form, but probably not more then 2,000 years.
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Re: The Wide World

Sat Dec 11, 2010 9:09 pm

Ok, good to know. The easterners on Calynys are well established, so they would have left before the cataclysm. They may be refugees from when the Dragon Kingdoms were being united into a single empire.
It suddenly occurred to me just how absurd this scene was: a guy wearing a suit of armor, standing next to an undead king, both hunched over the controls of a classic arcade game.
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Wolfgod
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Re: The Wide World

Sun Dec 12, 2010 5:26 pm

They could also be from the same people group that settled the Dragon Kingdoms, only they went west when Skos fell. They could be *very* old, or descended from very old cultures that came from the same source.
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Re: The Wide World

Sun Dec 12, 2010 6:57 pm

Excellent idea! They become one of the founding members of the culture instead of outsiders. I've got a lot of Calynys planned out, right now I'm working on the geography and where to best place cities.
It suddenly occurred to me just how absurd this scene was: a guy wearing a suit of armor, standing next to an undead king, both hunched over the controls of a classic arcade game.
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Re: The Wide World

Sun Dec 12, 2010 10:14 pm

Come. Marvel at the wonder that is the Nation of Gaer!
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Re: The Wide World

Mon Dec 13, 2010 7:43 am

Excellent. :)
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Re: The Wide World

Thu Dec 16, 2010 12:02 pm

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Re: The Wide World

Fri Dec 17, 2010 2:09 pm

Anybody else have any interest? Jason? Mark? Brian? Clay?

If nothing else, I could use everybody making an 'opposition' Kingdom, even if just laying down the bare bones for us to flesh out.
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Re: The Wide World

Fri Dec 17, 2010 6:56 pm

Mark would like one, but isn't sure where or what. He also wants Ga'nocks Island included somewhere.

Brian and Jay each would like one with the understanding that any mucking that will be done with them will only be done with the full permission and knowledge of the afore mentioned parties.
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Re: The Wide World

Sat Dec 18, 2010 9:51 am

I forgot Ga'nucks island. I'll add that.

http://www.the5kingdoms.com/wiki/index. ... _Ga%27nock

Mark, please elaborate. I've got it on the main map, and I'll make a wiki entry for that whole island grouping once there is more there. (Stahlgeassen Islands) The grouping is pretty widespread, like the Marianas or Marshall islands.

I think should be simple enough for Jay and Brian's parts.

Image
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Re: The Wide World

Sun Dec 19, 2010 12:43 am

Jay had also mentioned something about having another kingdom already in the works from about the time the Grand Campaign started. I wasn't sure where or what that was, so it'll be up to him to elaborate on that as well.

I should have the kingdoms of Evad (giant-hating, boar-riding dwarves), Gaer (agrarian construct-crafting orcs) and Kataf (orderly, egalitarian hobgoblins) completely posted before too long. All of those have places in Avantarra. Down in Valea I should have the kingdom of Chien (highly intelligent, megalomaniacal goblins) fairly fleshed out soon after.
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Re: The Wide World

Sun Dec 19, 2010 7:14 pm

Cool. I've got several of the Avantarran kingdoms posted on the wiki, along with a handful of the Valeans. There's a lot more detail and history in Avantarra right now (the moreso because we've visited it before).

Valea is closer to Naduum; Avantarra was once ruled by giants (which I haven't posted yet); so the two continents have very different backgrounds.
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Re: The Wide World

Wed Dec 29, 2010 1:29 am

The hobgoblin nation of Kataf has been completed and is awaiting my drive to transfer the information over into the wiki. Just for fun, I'm going to post the "history" section of the fine nation here so you can all get a taste of what has dominated the northern steppes of Avantarra.
Hobgoblins are the orderliest of the goblinoid peoples. They are prone to militaristic order, but also prone to cruelty and personal ambition. In a martial meritocracy, this works relatively well. All goblinoids are originally from Naduum, and the Katafin are no exception. They still speak a dialect of Naduumian and have many Naduumian traditions (as best remembered by the short lived people). Hobgoblins were used as the primary non-giant workers in the Pileusean Empire outside of the shivan lands and have been on Avantarra since the Diaspora. For several thousand years they were entirely dependent on the giants for their daily lives, as almost willing slaves to the giants. Slowly, their own culture and independence developed and tribes began to form among the slaves. These proto-tribes were encouraged by the Pileuseans, since it made the workers more efficient and their work better done. But the development went too far for the giants' comfort and they crushed these tribes before they could organized enough to rebel. The tribes were scattered and mixed so that no two families who had shared a tribe were within a hundred miles of each other. But this didn't stop the hobgoblins. They realized that the giants saw them as a threat, and this fueled them. It took another four hundred years, but they were able to secretly establish new tribes and were able to create a network between these tribes. In around 5200 PN, the First Vidra began, a great rebellion of all of the hobgoblin tribes. They threw down their giant masters and established for themselves independent tribes.

This warrior state existed for roughly a thousand years, but it had begun to diminish by 4500 PN when the Pileuseans were able to reorganize and drive back the hobgoblins. By 4200 PN, they hobgoblins were once again a conquered people. They were the second people to gain their independence from Pileus after the dwarven rebellion and the suicide of Garus. The Second Vidra started in 3728 PN, as the hobgoblins struck back against the weakening giant empire. Their insurrection was swift and bloody. Tens of thousands of each people died in the conflict, but the goblinoids were able to carve out for themselves a territory once again, regaining some of their former glory. This time, rather than a war-confederate, the despot Nasaha took the reins of the people in his iron fist. He ruled the nation cruelly and roughly for twenty years before passing it down to his firstborn son. For fifteen generations, Nasaha's family ruled over the "free" hobgoblins. Three hundred years was too much for the tribes. They had essentially leapt from "anvil to the furnace", to use a Katafin idiom, and they wanted no more of it. An uprising ensued, with the first blood drawn at the end of the year 2421 PN. This rebellion was lead by the warrior-prince Katafi, who became the first Tikari (similar to a triumvir) along with Hadura and Jabuta. The Tikari state was roughly a republic, with each tribe sending a representative to the senate, but all final decisions were determined by the Tikarom (pl. Tikari). This republic, known ad Picasa, lasted another 500 years before Nirdayi seized power. 1974 PN, when he was appointed Tikari after the death of Harada, he quickly slew his fellow Tikarom and anointed himself the Tanas of Picasa. As an autocrat, he squandered the wealth and power he had stolen, but he was still respected by the hobgoblins. Ancient Naduumian tradition, which the people still preserved, allowed for a stronger man to take when he could from a weaker man. Nirdayi had seized what he wanted from not just one man, but from an entire nation. The respect was begruding, but it was still offered.

Bloody and violent despots assassinated their way into power over the hobgoblins for another 800 years. Some were better than others, but all took the scepter at the tip of a blade. The size of Picasa fluctuated over these centuries, based on the power of the Tanas and his military. By this time, Vangir had become the chief enemy of Picasa, and they squabbled over territory constantly. In 1048 PN, during a civil war in Picasa, the Vangir struck and overwhelmed the hobgoblins. They took everything from them and forced them back into the servitude that had been the hobgoblins' fate under the giants of Pilea. Vangir had to quash pockets of resistance and uprisings all throughout the area of Picasa for several hundred years, and finally completely removed all weapons from Picasa. In secret, the hobgoblins kept training. They honed martial techniques using what tools they were allowed, mostly farming implements and craftsmans tools. Honed into weapons in the fields and forests, the hobgoblins waited their time to once again rise up and establish for themselves a nation.

In autumn 238 PN, the time came. Sipasa had been making secret dealings for years with the various unofficial tribal chiefs, setting up the system to overthrow the Vangiri. He only gave them as much information as they needed to complete their task and made sure that no single task was essential. He knew that many would die, as sacrifices for the betterment of the people, and he made sure that none were included that were not willing to give their lives for the cause. The coup was swift and violent. Katafin history claims that the Vangiri were deposed in a single day, though it took only marginally longer. The major Vangiri heads of state were all removed within the month. Before the year was out, the nation of Kataf was officially established and Sipasa was set as its head.
I hope to have the Valean nation of Chien completed (at least a first draft) by this weekend.
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Re: The Wide World

Mon Jan 03, 2011 3:47 pm

I finished up and posted heraldry for all the major Tribes of Rothgorod, plus a lot of the new regions. I also did a shield for Jason's Tantar - a Quezcoatl(sp?) on a green field. It seemed like it might fit his peoples.

For new regions - to make heraldry-making easier, find a simple black-and-white design and send me a link to it. 250x250 is probably a minimum size. Tell me what color you want the design and the color of the shield. (We follow the rules of heraldry in this universe, so either the shield or the design must be a 'metal', that is, white or yellow. So if you want a black dragon, he'll need to be on a white or yellow shield. You want a yellow dragon, you can put him on whatever color you want, except for white or yellow. Etc). All our heraldry (with one or two exceptions) would have to be redrawn before any publication, so feel free to steal artwork (for the moment).

Once you get artwork, I'll knock together a shield and edit the "Kingdoms of the World" Page. Then you'll have a link just like everyplace else. The 'questions' sheet posted earlier should help get you started. Once you answer those questions, transfer the answers (in wiki form) to the wiki, and your kingdom officially exists.

Austin, I need heraldry for Chien. Greg, I need heraldry for both your new realms. Shawn, I need heraldry for your realm.

Everybody else, I need a country name and heraldry for your new areas.

Also, what do we think about including 'alignment' in each Kingdom's descriptor?
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Re: The Wide World

Tue Jan 04, 2011 10:00 pm

Here's Solosteca's heraldry, I'm working on Maldara next.
Solosteca.jpg
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Re: The Wide World

Tue Jan 04, 2011 10:36 pm

Here's Maldara. On a related note, I wasn't sure what I wanted to do with this banner, so I found this dragon and bought it on fotolia.com. I couldn't just buy 5 credits, so I had to buy 12 instead. So, if anyone finds a vector they want on that site, let me know, and i can download it for you.
Maldara.jpg
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Re: The Wide World

Tue Jan 04, 2011 10:45 pm

Nice! I'll make those shields tomorrow.
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Re: The Wide World

Wed Jan 05, 2011 12:23 pm

I'd like to make the 'Locations' pages look alike, so I'm using Austin's template. Here's the short form, in case any of you want to copy and paste it into your Wiki page as a starting place:
[[Image:<your heraldry file>|right]]

=='''Overview'''==
(origin of kingdom)

=='''Terrain and Weather'''==
(average terrain and weather, by location)

[[Image:<your map>|right|thumb]]

=='''Settlements'''==
(general information about smaller settlements, or what the 'typical settlement' would look like.)

===Major Settlements===
(list of major settlements, most of these will link to individual articles. Brief description of each settlement, and/or its significance)

===Minor Settlements===
(list of minor settlements, some of which may link to individual articles)

=='''Culture'''==
(Culture: arts, clothing, pastimes, etc)

=='''Language'''==
(Common languages)

=='''Religion'''==
(Gods worshiped, if any; information about the temples, religious practices, etc)

=='''Government'''==
(type of government, information on current ruler or any significant political families)

=='''Military'''==
(Type and size of military; list units, fleets, etc)

=='''Magic'''==
(How magic is viewed and used in this kingdom)

=='''Demographics'''==
(Population, distribution, races, etc)

=='''Classes'''==
(popularity of individual classes in kingdom)
I just grabbed Austin's format, there may be more sections we want to add to this template. If so, let me know, and I'll just update this post.
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Re: The Wide World

Wed Jan 05, 2011 12:53 pm

Cool. You have shields up.
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Re: The Wide World

Wed Jan 05, 2011 12:56 pm

Thanks, created their dummy articles.
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Re: The Wide World

Wed Jan 05, 2011 1:16 pm

Ok, the name 'Maldara' was really starting to annoy me. So, I changed it to 'Isur'. The changes have been made on the wiki.
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Re: The Wide World

Wed Jan 05, 2011 11:44 pm

The format I used was basically a condensed form of the questions that Dustin posted for outlining a kingdom.

In regards to the question about including an "alignment" section, I feel that this should be as vaguely or obliquely referenced as possible in the "government" and "demographics" sections. I tried as much as possible to eschew direct references to game terminology (such as feats, skill points, levels, etc.) in my entry, seeing it more as an in-character examination of the country than a metagame analysis. Directly calling out alignments (in my opinion) breaks a lot of that immersion, and should be avoided when possible. I feel that calling out classes specifically somewhat does that too, but I understand that it's useful and more expedient than trying to come up with distinguishing references to the classes (that is, not to try make a fighter distinct from a ranger without calling them "fighter" and "ranger"). However, and this is one thing Dustin and I are discussing and I feel ought to include everyone involved, we ought to come to some sort of agreement on how alignment works. It is an important game mechanic. There are dozens of spells and magic items that do different things based on alignments, and alignment is important in class selection as well (namely, barbarians, bards, clerics, druids, monks, oracles and paladins).

It ought to be discussed in another thread, which I will post as soon as I have worded a coherent reply to Dustin's email to me.
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Re: The Wide World

Thu Jan 06, 2011 8:11 am

I agree, and that's why I usually put classes in their own section. Its something we need to know, but there's not a good way to reference it without talking about game rules.
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Re: The Wide World

Sun Jan 09, 2011 12:07 pm

The nation of Chien has gone through its first draft. They live in towering cities (hundreds of feet tall and covering dozens of square miles) that seem that a stiff breeze would knock down. They are violent and boorish, though relatively smart compared to Eian goblins. They are fantastically superstitious. Here is a list of some of their superstitions; it is not exhaustive, but merely representative.
What local customs do they follow?
This almost needs to be its own entry, since the myriad superstitions they follow are fascinating and are sort of the bedrock of Chien culture. Here are a sample of some of them:
-Goblins never say the number seven. The Black Valean word for "seven" sounds rather similar to the Black Valean word for "duck" and ducks remind goblins of water, which they aren't big fans of.
-All goblin tables are round. This is because, whenever goblins eat together, they always steal the plate of the person to their left. This is to fool any would-be poisoners trying to get to them.
-Goblins always begin a journey with their left foot. This is due to a mistranslation of the elvish proverb, "Always put your best foot forward". The goblin translation states, "Always put your left foot forward."
-If you ever pick up a tool, you must use it for its intended purpose before you are allowed to put it down. The list of uses for any item always includes striking another goblin, or a duck.
-One of the first rakhars of Sunan was nervous around women. When going to see a potential wife, his nervousness manifested in some flatulence. Trying to cover his mistake, he declared that it was for good luck. Always wanting to make sure that luck is on their side, his aides began to "pass luck" before entering any home. The luck charm caught on, and is now very popular among the people.
-Goblins always carry with themselves three things: "A penny, so you'll never be poor; a button, so that you will never be naked; and a marble, for the things that come after." What "the things that come after" are is never explained.
-A goblin never speaks ill of the dead, or bakers.
-Whenever taking a drink, you always spit out the first mouthful of whatever it is. It started soon after the fire in Sunan, when ash still covered the surface of the waters. The top of each mug of water tended to have a thin film of ash on it. The first drink took in that ash, and then was expelled so that the goblin wouldn't have to consume it. After that, the beverage was clean. It is unclear why the goblins have not ceased to do this, despite the waters having been clear for almost 3600 years.
-All goblins sleep with their feet on their pillows. This is to fool any potential attackers.
-Any goblin who leaves his home for more than a year and a day cannot return home facing west.
-Whenever a goblin baby is born, an identically sized stone is launched as far to the east as possible. When first arriving at the coast of Chien and settling down, the goblins were convinced they had reached the edge of the world. Afraid that their proliferation might cause the world to tip and fall into the sea (as Naduum had done), they made the best attempts they could to counterbalance the added weight. For some reason, this was not done for any visitors to Chien or for the birth of animals. Knowing now that this is not the case, the tradition still remains.
-The bottoms of all Chien boats have gruesome and terrifying faces painted on them in an attempt to scare off sea monsters.
-Napkins are always included with every goblin meal; however, it is considered very rude to ever use it. The cook expects his diners to consume all of his food. In some establishments, the napkins are nailed to the table.
-It is considered bad luck for a business if the first customer of the day does not purchase an item from a merchant. So as to not bring bad luck upon themselves, most goblin merchants open their doors and then immediately sell themselves something.
-Goblins always size things for themselves. Tailors, hat makers, weaponsmiths, jewelers or any crafter uses themselves as their forms. Because of this, crafters that are too small, too big, or otherwise unusual, tend to not get very much business.
-It is unlucky to be right handed. So, to make sure to not have an unlucky child, goblin parents tie something unsettling to their child's right wrist, making them want to use the left hand for most tasks. For many goblin families, the "charms" are passed down for generations.
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